Talking of cheap and powerful devices one can also look at Chinese UZ801 4G LTE (Qualcomm MSM8916) dongles. They cost like only $4-5 and pack quite impressive HW: 4GB eMMC, 512MB RAM, actual 4G modem sometimes with 2 sim switching support. Since it's actually old Android SOC there is even GPU and GPS in there. And a lot of work was already done on supporting them:
I've found [1] to be the best guide for getting started with them; you need to make a copy of the firmware partitions that you re-flash after installing Linux onto it in order to get the 4G modem working. It's honestly absurd how much you're getting for a fiver with it; add a power bank (or make your own from scavenged vape batteries in the spirit of this post) and you have a full Linux machine with WiFi and 4G that can work almost anywhere.
Speaking of cheap and powerful, I’m looking for a dirt cheap android phone that has a decent camera. I used to ship out GoPros to my customers but I don’t actually need them to film in 4K, 1080p with a decent CCD would be fine. And lately new GoPro models have become a pain to setup, they require pairing with a modern mobile phone which my customers sometimes don’t have.
b.) My lack of skills and time to build something really cool with something like this
A while ago i bought a licheerv nano (similar to luckfox pico or Milk-v duo) to build an open source iPod nano via usb-c audio Jack and the open source buildroot for the licheerv nano.
I did not find a suitable 2.4 inch or at least < 3"touch display that worked with the integrated MPI port.
With LVGL it should be doable to build a small portable audioplayer with acceptable features... But not for me :-)
Well hullo there, turns out that's my old mate, the Snapdragon 410! Quite an unexpected surprise!
And funnily in retrospect, my Moto G3 from 2015 (which I still occasionally use for whatsapp!) has the exact same processor, and turns out base android (7) is (un?)surprisingly efficient when you're not doing much! I totally believe you could get a lightweight linux distro going on; I'm more impressed by such an old (and mobile!) chipset still having some sort of vestigial support!
(Fun fact, iirc this was one of the first processors to get 64 bit support for android but motorola wasn't able to port it over in time for the launch. Hence it runs 32 bit android instead!)
Re-using this sort of device is super cool. I can imagine a post-apocalyptic scenario where a city is run on a hodgepodge of random computing devices like this.
I will say, though, disposable vapes with microcontrollers inside (and even full games and screens from recent reporting) are an egregious source of e-waste. Many layers of stupid are present here.
Disposable vapes were banned in the UK. Which in practise has meant that manufacturers have added the cheapest possible charging port which is non-standard so nobody can charge them and no way to open them to refill them.
Another example: One-time covid tests with a microcontroller, optical sensor to read the result and bluetooth to connect to a phone to display the results. Previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29698887
No, it means computing has gotten so %$#@ cheap that it's cheaper to just cobble together cheap parts instead of spending the money to design a purposed device.
Laws are not here to make money, they are here to decide what kind of society we want. If electronics is too cheap and it creates wastes, I'm of the opinion that we should make it illegal, period.
>The fact that selling such a thing is profitable means that we lack regulations somewhere.
It's the exact opposite. Tobacco is so heavily regulated and taxed that these become profitable. If cigarettes were 3-4$ a pack (which they would be without sin taxes and regulatory overhead), the vape market would come down as well and there's no way these could be profitable. As it is, they retail around $20 and contain the same nicotine as multiple $10 packs of cigarettes.
The regulation was written in time when there were no such devices. Are they "healthier" (less damaging) for the user? If yes, let's tax them lower. Are they less damaging for whole population? Considering the e-waste, I guess not, but it's not up to me to decide. If they aren't, they shouldn't be taxed higher that cigs, if yes, let's change the regulation.
Juul was very popular and less wasteful (although not perfect of course) as you disposed of the liquid pod rather than the whole device, they were regulated out of existence though. The regulations had loophole/oversight which paved the way for the disposable vape era.
You can get 10 packs for 20$CAD on reservations in Canada, and that's for decent cigarettes in packaging, the really cheap ones in ziploc bags go even cheaper. 3-4$ a pack is still a decent markup.
The fact something is profitable (even vices) does not mean it requires regulations, unless the regulation in mind is direct or indirect cap on profit margins?
The missing regulation is some kind of tax or other disincentive against e-waste. I believe the premise of the GP is that such things can only be profitable if we chose to ignore their environmental impact.
I've been aware about the perfectly reusable lithium batteries inside these disposable vapes, which is egregious enough.
But the one in the FTA comes with a full fat microcontroller and USB-C connector! I'm not clear if these connectors are accessible outside or if you need to break open the packaging before being able to get to it.
Like you said: "Many layers of stupid are present here"
All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product!
>All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product!
I'm constantly struck at how bread (a pastry, say) in a plastic tray, wrapped in plastic, is so crazy to me. The effort and technology that went, and goes, into oil extraction and such - only to throw the packaging away immediately that I get home ... it's just so unsustainable.
I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps ('refuse sites' where household waste is buried)? Maybe we already have? I know in developing countries people spend their days manually picking over such places.
> I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps
Never, because we have virtually unlimited space for landfills, and landfill tech has quietly been improving over the last few centuries, to the point that landfills are cheap, non-polluting, and entirely carbon neutral. Countries with less land mass (Europe et al) prefer incineration (mainly to save space, despite it being significantly worse for the environment and much more expensive (although with the newer energy reclamation efforts this is getting better)).
IMO it's not worth worrying about landfills too much. Household waste makes up about 3% of total landfill waste (when you add commercial/industrial/agricultural) in North America. You and your bun wrapper are truly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
The USB-C connectors are mostly for charging, and IME it'll take 4-6 full cycle charges until most are out of vape juice and disposable so they're always accessible. The packaging usually is snap-together with no screws so it's a puzzle.
I'm still surprised to see the fancier LCDs used which range from 2x4cm - slim 1.5x3cm (Digiflower, Raz is super popular.) Most LCD vapes which range from $20-25 are starting to fall by the wayside for $13-15 vapes with simple SMD LED displays with color overlays, (Kadobar, Geek Bar, Cookies, North) easy to make 7-segments for battery/juice status. Some are elaborate with wraparound displays that I've mistaken for flexible OLED and are deceptively cheap.
Between (a) component that costs tens of cents to mass produce and can be bought off the shelf and is reusable vs (b) component that needs actual experienced electronics engineers working on a single-use design that can not be repurposed later, I think we'd see that (a) might end up being less wasteful.
It's not so much that 99% go to the landfill, but this product does. Other products that use the same parts might be more reusable.
The point is that, most likely, the controller existed before this vape. Buying an off the shelf part can be cheaper than trying to bring up some custom part, both in cost and possibly in overall resources.
- If you want a custom part, you will need specialized equipment to build that part.
- If you want a custom part, you will maybe need to transport that part all around the world, while the off-the-shelf components might already be available close to your assembly plant.
I do wonder if there would be a workable law where companies are permanently responsible for what they produce, they must always accept back and responsibly recycle/break down to resources what they put out there, and do away with the shifting of responsibility of waste to society? Seems like a terrible engineering challenge but the right thing to do.
You begin by making a pen "from just the elements", then work your way up to there.
In other words, it's a huge challenge, but 6502 is closer, in complexity, to the pen than to the, say, AMD Ryzen.
But the primary idea behind Collapse OS isn't to run from 6502 built from the ground up (although it partly is), but to run from frankenstein cobbled up machines made from scavenged parts.
If I scavenge any machine today, how likely would I be to find a 6502 vs something more modern? I’d argue that some people might have a NES at home and one could get a 2A03 from it, but in a hypothetical scenario where I need to scavenge some computational power, I’d find an Android phone
Even for a Forth, 3KB of RAM is rather tight. Dusk OS intentionally de-prioritize compactness and it couldn't run on that amount of RAM. It can get a C compiler loaded in about 100KB of RAM, but 3? not enough to boot.
You're much more likely to stumble one something more modern, but that modern something is also much less repairable. It's great if it works and if it can run Linux or Dusk OS, but when it can't, you're out of luck.
With a 6502 or other such CPU, the machines you scavenge them from are much more repairable and adaptable. You can use those components like lego blocks. It breaks? either repair it or strip the working parts to use in another frankenstein computer.
Almost every electronic device becomes disposable at some point, some sooner than others. Just make sure you bring them to an e-waste bin when that time comes. E-waste recycling is a profitable business, so there's always one nearby in my experience.
If you have some old Samsung Galaxy Gio from 2011, it'll provide far more value by recycling it back to raw materials than it would if you'd somehow try to keep it usable in 2025.
The problem here is planned obsolescence in a product's design. That is what needs to be made illegal.
> Almost every electronic device becomes disposable at some point
And we're all gonna die, why would we have laws at all?
When we say "disposable vape", it's not to say "it will eventually stop working". It's more to say "you use it, you throw it away".
> E-waste recycling is a profitable
I don't doubt it's profitable, but it's most certainly not a good thing for the planet. Recycling is generally not a solution to waste.
> The problem here is planned obsolescence in a product's design. That is what needs to be made illegal.
Seriously? We're talking about DISPOSABLE VAPES. They are built to last as short a time as possible. At this point I am not sure if you think you disagree with me, are just nitpicking for the fun of it, or something else?
Yes, Smoke Alarms should be thrown away. The element that detects smoke has a 10-year maximum life span, which is exactly why most have moved to a non-replaceable battery that forces you to throw it away (for safety).
I'm going to need to see some data to back up that claim. Americium-241 has a half-life of 432.6 years. The detector itself isn't going to degrade in any meaningful way after only 10 years.
Plus, many smoke alarms these days use a photoelectric sensor which don't wear out but are prone to false alarms from dust, etc. Smoke alarms SHOULD be cleaned at least once a year, by blasting them with compressed air. Dust buildup is a very common reason that smoke alarms stop working as well after any number of years. They require regular cleaning, just like everything else in the house.
Non-replaceable battery smoke alarms are popular because they are much more convenient to own. And you should NOT throw them away, the batteries in these contain lithium and must be recycled.
Those exist and are still available but are fairly outdated in the US. The sealed lithium 10-year disposable is the newer standard. And, actually, building codes for last several year requires them to be hardwired so no batteries at all.
The landlord special on older construction (maybe >10 years old, can't remember when the hardwire code went into effect) will usually be the 9v. Because they don't care about you having to get on a ladder to change the battery every year. They get to save $5-10 per smoke detector. Practically any homeowner is going to choose the 10 year option as the batteries don't have to be swapped.
I didn't have to look far to replace my combo CO/Smoke detector or do a ton of hard searching to find one that just took a 9-volt. The first two results on Amazon US for "smoke detector" take 9-volts.
This is an exceedingly strange comment -- you made up a silly thing to get upset about, and are making fun of people who aren't upset about the thing, because you think it's the sort of thing they would be upset about, even though it isn't and you say as much?
This feels like a whole new category of straw man.
The word "jihad" has a wider meaning than "holy war". It would better be translated into "worthy struggle" — with "worthy" being very subjective.
Islam is in fact the largest religion (by worshippers) in the world today, so Frank Herbert's assumption that a culture derived from it would be dominant in a future society is just extrapolation.
> Islam is in fact the largest religion (by worshippers) in the world today, so Frank Herbert's assumption that a culture derived from it would be dominant in a future society is just extrapolation
Fyi,
> Dune is a 1965 epic science fiction novel by American author Frank Herber
The distinction you're making wrt Jihad is also super modern and did not apply back then
I think the current estimate is that there are almost a half a billion more Christians than Muslims (in 2025.)
One reason is that the number of Christians in Sub-Saharan Africa is growing.
But extrapolating the trends, yes Islam will probably become the largest religion in the coming decades.
Or at least maybe - looking at birth rates, it seems as second generation muslim immigrants to Western countries have even lower birth rates than the native population. That might happen also in regions say like Pakistan and Indonesia and other fast growing regions, depending on economical or other changes.
There are many discussions on this exact topic online.
TL;DR: while Dune has many references to various concepts coming from Islamic societies throughout, the Fremen are the obvious stand-in for Arabs specifically, and so get the most attention. And, in the context of the first book at least, Fremen are the "good guys" in many ways - if you reframe it in modern terms, they are the natives fighting against a colonial empire that subjugates them in order to extract a valuable resource from their lands, and then on top of that there's also the more subtle ecological angle.
its true that the concept of a _holy war_ isnt unique to the muslim faith though. I never claimed that either however.
It's slightly surprising to me how few people seem to be aware of that in HN. Was expecting the general readership here to be a little less obsessively righteous and uninformed on a topic like this, but ymmv I guess
Because most "woke" stuff is made up or blown out of proportion by people on the internet. One person might do one thing and the video/meme goes viral and people eat up the story like its some movement
The mismatch between the Ancient Specs of Yore is kind of interesting. The Commodore 64 had 64KB of RAM, but that RAM was attached to an 8-bit, 1MHz CPU. This thing has call it half the RAM of a Commodore 64, but it's attached to a 32-bit 24MHz CPU the 1980s could only dream of. And it's disposable in 2025. Pretty impressive in a weird way.
Its only got 3k of RAM, 24k of flash. Although modern flash is sometimes the same bandwidth as memory was if you go back a bit, although not latency of course.
I am happy they demonstrated how useful these devices are. Marking these as "disposable" is a kind of insanity. I recovered a few of them "disposed" (i.e. "randomly thrown away into") in an empty flower pot, and took out the LiPo batteries from them -- which are rechargeable, and have charge circuitry (non-trivial for LiPos). That we somehow decided that it's OK to design these to be used only once feels wrong.
This is the opposite of repairability. We specifically made them impossible to reuse and refill. Makes my tinkerer (and eco-friendly) heart very sad.
There's a pretty amazing video where a guy makes an entire functioning e-bike battery out of disposable vapes that he gathered around a music festival. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcVp9T8f_W4
I can't fathom why disposables are legal. Really believed that the post-boomer generations actually gave a damn about waste.
There are reusable vapes and reputable stores carry only those, but they are generally many times more expensive than disposable vapes, which are favored by smugglers (profit margins) and underage users (price point and potential seizing by parent/teacher/police).
Disposable vapes put young people in contact with career criminals and organized crime, who will be only too happy to oblige even if the customer has no money. The result is young people in debt to criminals, which has the exact same ramifications as getting in drug debt. Those young people can then be coerced to commit other crimes to cover their debts.
My reusable vape cost like 15$. It's basically the same components as a disposable vape, except I can refill a pod and switch the pod if I burn the wick.
Yes, like all tobacco products. These days a lot of marketing is targeted and subtle, especially for an industry used to dealing with advertising restrictions.
Probably not, unless there are very specific substances in the liquid being vaped.
There are two known culprits: diacetyl is/was used in some flavorings for its buttery taste, and liquid Vitamin E oil was used in clandestinely produced THC vape cartridges (which are really not relevant for the topic at hand). Both of those have largely disappeared from the market.
Sure, some cheap components can in theory leach heavy metals into liquids. The amounts are insignificant compared to what you will be breathing in just by walking on city streets, even outside rush hour.
And at least vapes don’t contain polonium-210 like cigarettes do.
The current state of technology is ... weird. From AI doing our art instead of our work, to hosting a website on an eCigarette. "Weird" is the only word I can think of at this moment.
I wouldn’t want to be the lawyer who one day will have to argue how a device with USB C and a rechargeable battery can be classified as “disposable”.
I thought the point of making them like this was that they technically are reusable, so they can sell them (to people who for some reason keep buying them and throwing them away!) in places where disposable vapes are banned.
I'm confused by why anybody would buy one of these when entirely reusable versions exist, but then vaping seems unwise to me in general except as a way to quit tobacco.
Vaping nicotine doesn't seem that bad to me. AFAICT the dangers outside simple addictiveness are moderate lung irritation and cardiovascular effects, but no strong evidence of cancer caused by vaping alone - far better than cigarettes, and still better than an equivalent drinking problem.
Vaping causes inflammation, nicotine suppresses the immune system (which is probably pretty bad news for fighting any other diseases), and nicotine cessation has been linked with an increase in development of autoimmune disorders in the 12-24 month period after quitting.
I had elevated white blood cells counts and I developed an autoimmune condition a few months after quitting vaping. I had good health record leading up to it and no family history of any autoimmune disorders. White blood cells eventually normalized but autoimmune is forever, although it's under control and I'm lucky that it was caught early.
In the final ~4 years of vaping I didn't use any flavorings either, just 70/30 mix of VG/PG and nicotine.
It's not terrible as far as vices go, much less harmful than the alternatives, but it's definitely not as harmless as I thought going in. I wish I hadn't started and went for the ADHD assessment right away instead of subconsciously self-medicating with nicotine.
Word. I quit nicotine and it triggered auto immune response, I got celiac disease.
Never touched it ever again and I had to stop eating like a normal person. No more fast food for the rest of my life.
> linked with an increase in development of autoimmune disorders in the 12-24 month period after quitting
No shit, I had no idea.
That explains a lot. I quit smoking (well, the first time I tried to quit) when I was 19 (2 years smoking). 3 months later I was in the hospital with sclerosing mesenteritis, a rare disorder for an older person but baffling and way out of left-field for a 19 year old with no prior history autoimmune issues. We only got a diagnosis after full exploratory surgery that earned me a six inch incision scar on my stomach.
I don't think adequate studies have taken a look into the long term effects of all the solvents and oils they use aside from the nicotine. Intuitively, this just seems like a terrible idea putting non-water-soluble vapors into your lungs but I am definitely not a doctor.
This is why to me it’s so damn disappointing to me that vaping is targeted so forcefully by the various scolds in the “regulate everything” camp when smoking isn’t yet eradicated. Things like banning flavor and stuff. They want it to be as unpleasant as tobacco, which reduces the likelihood of people switching from tobacco to vaping, killing many of those smokers as a way to “save” teens from taking up an overall not-very-dangerous habit.
I vaped for around 8 years, about 4 years with typical flavorings and the last 4 years unflavored. IME unflavored vaping really isn't that bad, I accidentally switched to it because I ran out of flavoring one time and after a few days I didn't really miss them anymore so I just stopped using them.
I would compare it to people who drink soda all day, they can't fathom how people can drink "boring" plain water all day and they have a really hard time switching, but people who are used to drinking water find it as refreshing and satisfying as anything.
I think these flavorings cause more harm by luring young people to start vaping than they help smokers by luring them away from cigarettes. In an ideal world adults would be allowed to vape whatever they want, and teens wouldn't be able to get their hands on vapes in any capacity, but clearly that's not working so I think that flavor bans are a decent compromise.
I don't buy the argument that flavor bans will make teens go back to smoking. Cigarettes taste awful, they make you smell terrible, they irritate your lungs far more, they're far more expensive. If I was a teen I would still pick up unflavored vaping over cigarette smoking any time, but I'd be less likely to get into vaping without the flavorings.
> A third of UK teenagers who vape will go on to start smoking tobacco, research shows, meaning they are as likely to smoke as their peers were in the 1970s.
> The findings suggest that e-cigarettes are increasingly acting as a “gateway” to nicotine cigarettes for children, undermining falling rates of teen smoking over the past 50 years.
Maybe I'm just an old geeser but when I went back to grad school I was absolutely shocked at how many people vaped, and it seemed to have been because they started smoking flavored vapes. People would go to a party, either in high school or college, and the party would be permeated by some sweet smell. Curious kids/people would investigate, try vaping, and eventually get their own, becoming addicted.
As far as I can tell, banning flavored vapes has had a significant impact on reducing vaping/smoking new users, which is the ultimate goal. People who are currently addicted should primarily be motivated to quit, not find better tasting alternatives
Counter-point: For someone who's used to smoking or vaping, the craving to "take a puff" can be a very strong, maybe stronger than the chemical dependence on nicotine itself.
I noticed that in myself when I was trying to quit, vaping nicotine-free liquids helped my cravings more than nicotine itself. It didn't help the physical withdrawal symptoms but it mysteriously stopped the cravings for a while.
i have owned lots. they taste better than most permanent vapes. ive tried the whole buy all the best components and perfect juices etc with various tanks of different flavours. disposables just work and taste good, no leaks. they also have a logical end point like a pack of cigarettes. Its nice to switch flavour more frequently, and the packet/vape body colours pressed deep monkey brain buttons for fruit etc
Yeah, the sweetener they put in the disposables is like crack. If a liquid could replicate it then the switch to reusable would be a no brainer, but I never found one. Alas I switched to nicotine gum and haven’t looked back.
I did the math and Juul was 47x more expensive than the liquids (this is in Canada). Then I switched to the juice vapes, and finally to kick the juice vaping I picked up pipe tobacco. Pipe tobacco is way cheaper than cigs nevermind vapes, the highest quality, and tastes incredibly good (also, you can also get that "first cigarette headrush" every time if you like by inhaling, works every time).
I used to love the smell of my Grandfather's pipe smoke. I still enjoy the occasional 2nd-hand smell of a rollup. Is pipe tobacco different to rollies?
Substantially. It is way more coarse, usually much more moist as well. Tends to be more “pure” tobacco with less additives, though I’m sure that’s not universal. I know somebody who does not smoke but buys it to keep in cabinets and various drawers because they love the smell. I must admit I am partial to the smell as well.
Because reusable versions are a hassle. Cleaning, Charging, Changing Batteries, Changing liquid, etc. Whereas with reusable, well, you just puff and worry about nothing. Which is why people vape in the first place :)
Reasonable people already reused single-use bags. Trashcan liners, dog walk bags, cat scoop bags, etc.
Having recently been reminded that it used to be common to see eviscerated VHS tapes by roads, I've been reminded that we'll always have people who litter.
I’m not sure what your point is: because one type of litter is reduced, it doesn’t matter because people still litter in other ways?
In every place where plastic bags are banned, there’s a dramatic and obvious reduction in the amount of them clogging up trees, roads, fields, waterways, etc. If people need them for other purposes, they can buy them, while everyone else who doesn’t need them, doesn’t.
The majority of people reuse those bags, they're pretty great actually. Most people I know have slightly more expensive bags made out of fabric though.
Not here. Standing in line at stores like target that have them I see maybe 1/20 people checking out in front of me bring in reused disposable sacks, while 15/20 leave with new ones. Certainly not enough reuse to justify the extra thickness.
You've misunderstood the assignment if you don't reuse those, they are perfectly fine for that and will last a long time. Just have one in your bag or car. I've even reused paper bags for more than half a year since the ban.
They do, but they still don’t make it back to the stores enough, and nobody has 16 wastebaskets to line every week. Also the old ones were just as suitable for wastebasket duty.
The bag laws have done nothing but increase the consumption of plastic, since stores still go through nearly as many, but they’re 5x thicker now.
The only time I even get one of those things is if I forget my regular bag or I buy too much stuff to fit. That happens like once a month.
Why are you going into the store empty handed and coming out with 16 plastic bags?
Not everyone is you. 16 is mild hyperbole, but I'm not even speaking normatively on what people should do. I'm speaking about what people do do. I'll stipulate that everyone including me should always keep at least 10 bags in my car so that I can do about 2 typical shopping trips even if I forget to put them back in the car. And we should always remember to carry them in. But that isn't happening with the current hilariously poor incentives in place (50 measly cents to buy 5 bags and no bag deposit either.)
I predict that if you spend 10 minutes observing the checkouts in your supermarket you'll see exactly what I see: At least 75% of people buying new plastic bags for the transaction, and zero people depositing bags into the special bag recycling bin at the store - which in the US is basically the only place this type of plastic is even accepted for recycling.
And again, these bags appear to be 3-5x as thick as the old bags, so the bag law is a huge win for Big Plastic who sells more plastic than they used to, and it mostly goes into the landfill.
The solutions:
• Admit this is a failed policy
• Everyone everywhere stops being imperfect, forgetful and lazy -- 100% of the time.
California is still hoping for the latter to pan out!
If you have a family and a grocery store in walking distance you can do it easily; I would hit 16 if I forgot my shopping bag - which I do on occasion.
The coil is part of the pod and therefore user-replaceable. The point of a pod system is to keep the coil and liquid in a self-contained system, which practically eliminates the risk of liquid leaks. All of these quasi-disposable vapes with replaceable pods and a charging port can be re-used hundreds of times.
I don't know why people dispose of the whole thing rather than just changing the pod, but at least it's a boon for electronics hobbyists.
Growing up, smoking was quite common. A lot can change in 20-30 years, so I'm cautiously optimistic that maybe vaping will eventually become as socially unacceptable as smoking.
If you're in the EU/UK the WEEE directive means anywhere selling them should take them back like-for-like to be directed into the correct waste stream. (they get paid some of the deposit on them to do so)
I would be more fine with disposable vapes like this if almost all of them were recovered somehow, for the amount it subsidises production of Li-ion batteries.
Theoretically a high enough deposit could probably “fix the problem.” Like, if the empty was worth a $25 deposit most people would 100% take them back to the store. It would be annoying for people to have the high deposit, but it’s really a one-time expense.
On the other hand at least in the US, a deposit of a buck or two wouldn’t do much. California has that for cans and bottles, yet only maybe 10% of people turn them in. Most end up in curbside recycling (which doesn’t refund) or the garbage, indicating people don’t care about getting their nickel or dime back.
That's the theory. I practice, even in famously recycling-obsessed Germany, it's impossible to return electronics in places that are required to accept them, even two years after that law passed. The staff is really confused when you try.
No, it’s there because the battery can’t hold enough charge for the ratio of vape liquid they put in it. So you get 2-3 full charges and it runs out of liquid.
The micro in this thing is a WQFN-16 (W = very very thin, thinner than V for very) with 3x3x0.75mm body. That's around a fiftieth of a gram of plastic.
I think the bigger SOIC chip is probably the battery charge IC. And then maybe a gram or two of PCB epoxy. And the plastic in the battery pouch and membranes which you need anyway.
In terms of plastics waste volume, the casing and tank is probably nearly all of the content. So the problem is a disposable vape bring a thing at all, not really the microcontroller in there.
It feels mad and somehow wasteful that you can get a CPU at that price point, but the die itself is a tiny sliver of silicon. You can even embed an (even tinier) and weedier application-specific) IC in a paper metro ticket. Compute is just so ridiculously cheap that you can have a hundred of functional ICs for the cost of a single largish cup of hot bean water.
There's more silicon in the battery charge controller probably (bigger transistors). The MCU is just a speck.
Ironically making these disposable vapes "reusable" causes more e-waste as now they need a connector and charge controller and a bigger PCB.
By law, neither electronics nor batteries can be disposed of with generic waste. This is the case in the EU, at least. So how are people then disposing these devices?
Disclaimer: I do know the answer, but I'd rather pretend that people actually follow the law.
3kb of RAM and 24kb of flash is a bit tight for Doom unfortunately. It has been ported to another Cortex-M0+ microcontroller, the RP2040, but that has 264kb of RAM plus megabytes of flash and the game still barely fits.
I always forget about the idea that IPv6 was intended to allow literally everything to have an address. The mouse, keyboard, display, etc. Seems like a bad idea now, but back then it was considered as part of the overall plan for the nearly infinite space. Maybe the joke is still missing a punchline. We've had this generic device interface for decades but decided on proprietary and arbitrary standards of device communication to make our lives easier in the short-term.
This is really impressive. I laughed when I got 503 Unavailable on the hosted URL. I guess we're all hugging that little vape CPU a little too hard. :)
I found of these that had a built-in retro game console with screen. Like, the kind of little game that a small child would be interested in. So frustrating.
Maybe, I'm not sure how you would connect a debugger to qemu, and you would have to emulate the ram and flash, but other than that is pretty standard arm cortex m0. The code is pretty generic too.
Apparently they're cheap because they're a flash memory company that bolts a little CPU onto their own flash, rather than a CPU company having to then buy the more expensive flash with a markup.
So a question maybe someone can clue me in on here: while the specs on that MCU seem imminently reasonable to me (especially compared to some of the PIC12F and similar I've used in the past) the thing that feels odd is the high clock speed ARM core. Is it really that cheap and easy to drop an M0 core or ip block into an MCU? Why not more RAM and a simpler/slower core? The M0 feels grossly overkill.
You think a Cortex-M0+ in a disposable vape is wasteful, wait until you see the ones with colour touchscreens and Bluetooth radios. It's probably only a matter of time before they start running Android on them.
I respect the point about not wanting to send the manufacturer any business, but I would love to know the brand so I'd know which ones to rescue if given the chance.
I am probably stupid so bear with me. I don't get the part about not naming brands if you are certain they won't ever sponsor you. I feel like it just hurts the value of the article with nothing gained
It's not about sponsorships and integrity, it's about preventing the pipeline "Person reads article -> Sees this brand of vape has micocontrollers -> Buys this brand of vape".
(If I understood the author correctly, y'know, not to speak for them)
That's gotta be between 75 and 90% less damaging to humanity than the designed use of a disposable vape. Well done, Bogdan!
I'm reminded of the project Tom7 put together a few years back where he used the surplus components inside a digital COVID kit as spare memory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcJSW7Rprio
I wonder how much cost would be added if they included a small usb storage drive in those things. You could incentivize non-disposal because people would have a million of those things.
Add a GPS and a few propellers to vapes so they can fly themselves directly into the nearest river, lake or (as a last resort) ocean once they're empty.
The Addictive Stuff™ is literally the core feature of the item. Your comment makes it sound like the producers are nefariously and covertly adding nicotine to a product which normally would not have any? It's like saying "These scoundrel breweries! They're making beer that gets you drunk!"
I mean disposable vapes are just complete idiocy to begin with.
Vapes with pods are less expensive in the long run and offer a vastly superior vaping experience. You can get liquid for dirt cheap. If you smoke heavily, you might offset the initial investment in a week or two.
Disposable vapes offer zero advantages. They are only good if you want to "just try" it once or that is what you are going to tell yourself in your career of producing e-waste.
What they offer is ubiquity and the turnkey nature.
You can walk into any nearby smoke shop, get one and use it immediately. You don't have to carry around a bottle of liquid and extra coils and paper towels/napkins for the inevitable leak.
I stopped vaping a little while ago but when I did vape, there was no clear standard of pod systems. You sure could walk into a nearby smoke shop but it was unlikely that you'd find your ideal pod/coil/liquid.
It's hard to take back the convenience people have gotten used to. I think one idea could be that disposable vapes become recyclable vapes. They should cost $15 more and buyers should get back $10 when they return it for recycling. This is nicotine we're talking about so the buyer is always coming back anyway.
While I do believe that disposable vapes should be banned even if they happen to be more convenient, I really don't see it. When I vaped myself I liked having a re-usable vape so much more than the disposable crap.
With the disposable it would always be a gamble how long they would last. I don't get how people manage. Do they buy multiples at once and carry them around?
It was so much more convenient to carry that small bottle of liquid with me and have the peace of mind that I wouldn't run out of juice for the night. Never had issues with spilled liquid.
Not having a standard for pods sucks but you don't need to buy them that often. I just ordered them online anyway.
Of course it might be a bit of a cultural difference as well. Most of my smoker friends roll their own cigarettes which is way more inconvenient.
This is cool, but, man, I felt like such a pathetic excuse for a human being when, brutally craving nicotine, with my vape empty of the fruit-flavoured juice that I am literally addicted to like the stupid pathetic baby that I am, and stuck with the cravings because all the shops are closed until morning, and so, in need of a distraction, I opened Hacker News. FFS.
Sometimes the only option is to laugh at your own expense! Clearly this is a sign. I should buy more juice next time. And maybe start smoking more actual cigs.
I've been (I am?) addicted to many substances, from fruit-flavoured nicotine juice through to heroin.
I find self-deprecating humour useful, personally. It helps me not wallow, to take the cravings less seriously. I of course wouldn't say the same about anyone who isn't me.
Because, as you say, someone who has an addiction isn't lesser than anyone else. It's a state of being that requires an awful lot of strength.
That said, having to use that strength on 'mango e-liquid' is, I think, funny in an absurdist way. We live in strange times!
so I had to throw nginx in front of it so my little router wouldn't explode, but I hope some people will get to experience the relaxing loading experience live.
What were you doing to get traffic from the open Internet to your webserver at home? I always felt that was a risky proposition, but I might just be stupid.
I've hosted at home for years and if you have it properly setup it's not any more risky than using a VPS. I have 443 open on my router and basically all web traffic is routed to a container on my server. The container is on an isolated vlan and basically runs nginx as a ssl reverse proxy.
The actual web services behind the proxy run in their own containers and with proper isolation and firewall rules the effects of a security compromise are limited. At most an attacker will be able to take over the containers with an exploit (and they could do that with a VPS as well) but they won't be able to access the rest of the network or my secure internal systems.
If I was this guy and wanted to let people connect directly to my vapeserver I would simply host it on another vlan and port forward the HTTP connection. Even if someone manages to take over such an obscure system they're not going to be able to do much.
Done it since before I properly knew what I was doing. Haven't had issues. Even though n=1, also now that I'm actually working in IT security, I don't think the risk was ever much bigger than what I could oversee
The main thing is that, if someone gets onto the server system, then they're in my network and they can do attacks on other devices in that LAN (guest wifis are a nice way to isolate that nowadays; that didn't exist back when I started). Same as when I take my laptop to school for example, then others can reach it. I've had issues with others in school doing attacks because the internet was unencrypted http back then (client-side hashing in JavaScript limited the impact though), but not from anyone who tried to hack into the server. Only automated scans for outdated Wordpress, setup files for Phpmyadmin, ssh password guessing... the things they simply try blindly on every IP address. If any of this is successful, you're most likely going to be turned into a spam-sending server or a DDoS zombie; not something with lasting impact once you discover the issue and remove the malware
Most attackers don't do targeted attacks on your system or network unless you're a commercial entity that presumably can pay a nice ransom, or are a high-profile individual. Attackers aiming for consumers send phishing emails and create phishing advertisements, look for standard password vaults if you run their malware, try using stolen credentials on Steam and hope you've got a payment method stored... the usual old things. Having a server doesn't make any of those attacks easier, and besides, self hosting is very uncommon. Even if you and I had a similar enough setup at home with a straightforward path to exploitation, it's a few thousand people that self-host in a country with millions of people. It's not worth developing attacks for
> What were you doing to get traffic from the open Internet to your webserver at home? I always felt that was a risky proposition,
How times change.
Once nearly every self respecting IT pro ran servers from there home network. The modern drive to outsource and consolidate the interweb to a handful of big players I find rather odd; perhaps even counterproductive in the long run.
VPS with public ipv4, connected to home network over Tailscale and forward the traffic with socat. You'd probably be fine opening a port directly but a small VPS is free most places so might as well make the most of it.
Could you elaborate more on the "a small VPS is free"? Except Oracle's free tier offer, I am not aware of others; I'd appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction.
For this I used GCP free tier -- not sure why everyone acts like Oracle are the only free tier around when GCP and AWS offer always-free tiers too. It's just runing socat to forward to the vape over tailscale. Is there something I'm missing?
I'm not sure where to go for the free VPS, other than Oracle Cloud, as you mention, but a Cloudflare tunnel will get traffic into your LAN even behind CGNAT or other nonsense.
You can put the public facing stuff on a separate VLAN and have firewall rules that don’t give the VLAN access to LAN stuff. I only know how to do this with IPv4 though, IPv6 confuses me and I’m scared to get it wrong so I disabled it.
Previously discussed, but I think that first submission fell off the frontpage early because it linked directly to the vapeserver which instantly died under load: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45243800
Talking of cheap and powerful devices one can also look at Chinese UZ801 4G LTE (Qualcomm MSM8916) dongles. They cost like only $4-5 and pack quite impressive HW: 4GB eMMC, 512MB RAM, actual 4G modem sometimes with 2 sim switching support. Since it's actually old Android SOC there is even GPU and GPS in there. And a lot of work was already done on supporting them:
https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Zhihe_series_LTE_dongles_...
https://github.com/OpenStick/OpenStick
So yeah if you looking for hardware platform for weird homelab projects that's can be it.
I've found [1] to be the best guide for getting started with them; you need to make a copy of the firmware partitions that you re-flash after installing Linux onto it in order to get the 4G modem working. It's honestly absurd how much you're getting for a fiver with it; add a power bank (or make your own from scavenged vape batteries in the spirit of this post) and you have a full Linux machine with WiFi and 4G that can work almost anywhere.
[1] https://wvthoog.nl/openstick/
What an interesting gadget! It looks like it has most of the features of an Orange Pi Zero, but at around 1/5th of the price.
it's almost like everything matching the pi footprint is severely overpriced!
Speaking of cheap and powerful, I’m looking for a dirt cheap android phone that has a decent camera. I used to ship out GoPros to my customers but I don’t actually need them to film in 4K, 1080p with a decent CCD would be fine. And lately new GoPro models have become a pain to setup, they require pairing with a modern mobile phone which my customers sometimes don’t have.
My biggest Problem with these devices is
a.) the world of electronics is moving too fast
b.) My lack of skills and time to build something really cool with something like this
A while ago i bought a licheerv nano (similar to luckfox pico or Milk-v duo) to build an open source iPod nano via usb-c audio Jack and the open source buildroot for the licheerv nano.
I did not find a suitable 2.4 inch or at least < 3"touch display that worked with the integrated MPI port.
With LVGL it should be doable to build a small portable audioplayer with acceptable features... But not for me :-)
> Qualcomm MSM8916
Well hullo there, turns out that's my old mate, the Snapdragon 410! Quite an unexpected surprise!
And funnily in retrospect, my Moto G3 from 2015 (which I still occasionally use for whatsapp!) has the exact same processor, and turns out base android (7) is (un?)surprisingly efficient when you're not doing much! I totally believe you could get a lightweight linux distro going on; I'm more impressed by such an old (and mobile!) chipset still having some sort of vestigial support!
(Fun fact, iirc this was one of the first processors to get 64 bit support for android but motorola wasn't able to port it over in time for the launch. Hence it runs 32 bit android instead!)
Where do i get a MSM8916 board for commercial usage at low volumes(1k)?
What about disassembling 1k dongles?
Re-using this sort of device is super cool. I can imagine a post-apocalyptic scenario where a city is run on a hodgepodge of random computing devices like this.
I will say, though, disposable vapes with microcontrollers inside (and even full games and screens from recent reporting) are an egregious source of e-waste. Many layers of stupid are present here.
Disposable vapes were banned in the UK. Which in practise has meant that manufacturers have added the cheapest possible charging port which is non-standard so nobody can charge them and no way to open them to refill them.
https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/disposable-vape-ban-loo...
Another example: One-time covid tests with a microcontroller, optical sensor to read the result and bluetooth to connect to a phone to display the results. Previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29698887
Don’t forget the Tom7 video[1] where he made a „hard drive“ from disposable Covid test kits.
[1] https://youtu.be/JcJSW7Rprio?t=1560
The fact that selling such a thing is profitable means that we lack regulations somewhere.
No, it means computing has gotten so %$#@ cheap that it's cheaper to just cobble together cheap parts instead of spending the money to design a purposed device.
That's not mutually exclusive with what I said.
Laws are not here to make money, they are here to decide what kind of society we want. If electronics is too cheap and it creates wastes, I'm of the opinion that we should make it illegal, period.
>The fact that selling such a thing is profitable means that we lack regulations somewhere.
It's the exact opposite. Tobacco is so heavily regulated and taxed that these become profitable. If cigarettes were 3-4$ a pack (which they would be without sin taxes and regulatory overhead), the vape market would come down as well and there's no way these could be profitable. As it is, they retail around $20 and contain the same nicotine as multiple $10 packs of cigarettes.
They need to regulate the nicotine content. In Canada its 2% at least. In the US its pretty much 5% juice only.
5% is 50mg/1ml. A cigarette pack has about 25mg. A geek bar has 16ml of juice = 800mg of nicotine = 32 packs of cigarettes.
The regulation was written in time when there were no such devices. Are they "healthier" (less damaging) for the user? If yes, let's tax them lower. Are they less damaging for whole population? Considering the e-waste, I guess not, but it's not up to me to decide. If they aren't, they shouldn't be taxed higher that cigs, if yes, let's change the regulation.
> It's the exact opposite. Tobacco is so heavily regulated and taxed that these become profitable.
It's not the opposite at all. Tobacco should disappear just as well.
Juul was very popular and less wasteful (although not perfect of course) as you disposed of the liquid pod rather than the whole device, they were regulated out of existence though. The regulations had loophole/oversight which paved the way for the disposable vape era.
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You can get 10 packs for 20$CAD on reservations in Canada, and that's for decent cigarettes in packaging, the really cheap ones in ziploc bags go even cheaper. 3-4$ a pack is still a decent markup.
The fact something is profitable (even vices) does not mean it requires regulations, unless the regulation in mind is direct or indirect cap on profit margins?
The missing regulation is some kind of tax or other disincentive against e-waste. I believe the premise of the GP is that such things can only be profitable if we chose to ignore their environmental impact.
I think it's a lack of regulation to prevent negative externalities. Particularly with respect to waste management / product lifecycle.
I've been aware about the perfectly reusable lithium batteries inside these disposable vapes, which is egregious enough.
But the one in the FTA comes with a full fat microcontroller and USB-C connector! I'm not clear if these connectors are accessible outside or if you need to break open the packaging before being able to get to it.
Like you said: "Many layers of stupid are present here"
All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product!
>All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product!
I'm constantly struck at how bread (a pastry, say) in a plastic tray, wrapped in plastic, is so crazy to me. The effort and technology that went, and goes, into oil extraction and such - only to throw the packaging away immediately that I get home ... it's just so unsustainable.
I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps ('refuse sites' where household waste is buried)? Maybe we already have? I know in developing countries people spend their days manually picking over such places.
> I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps
Never, because we have virtually unlimited space for landfills, and landfill tech has quietly been improving over the last few centuries, to the point that landfills are cheap, non-polluting, and entirely carbon neutral. Countries with less land mass (Europe et al) prefer incineration (mainly to save space, despite it being significantly worse for the environment and much more expensive (although with the newer energy reclamation efforts this is getting better)).
IMO it's not worth worrying about landfills too much. Household waste makes up about 3% of total landfill waste (when you add commercial/industrial/agricultural) in North America. You and your bun wrapper are truly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
The cheapness of plastic just to speaks to the enormous demand for all the other oil products sold, it's practically a byproduct.
The USB-C connectors are mostly for charging, and IME it'll take 4-6 full cycle charges until most are out of vape juice and disposable so they're always accessible. The packaging usually is snap-together with no screws so it's a puzzle.
I'm still surprised to see the fancier LCDs used which range from 2x4cm - slim 1.5x3cm (Digiflower, Raz is super popular.) Most LCD vapes which range from $20-25 are starting to fall by the wayside for $13-15 vapes with simple SMD LED displays with color overlays, (Kadobar, Geek Bar, Cookies, North) easy to make 7-segments for battery/juice status. Some are elaborate with wraparound displays that I've mistaken for flexible OLED and are deceptively cheap.
Between (a) component that costs tens of cents to mass produce and can be bought off the shelf and is reusable vs (b) component that needs actual experienced electronics engineers working on a single-use design that can not be repurposed later, I think we'd see that (a) might end up being less wasteful.
> can not be repurposed later
whether it can be repurposed is worth little in being wasteful if >99% go to the landfill.
> I think we'd see that (a) might end up being less wasteful.
Monetarily? sure. Environmentally? unlikely
Environmentally, there is very little difference at the landfill if the PCB has an 8 bit microcontroller or a 64 bit ARM chip.
The only environment-friendly solution is to forbid this product to exist in the first place.
It's not so much that 99% go to the landfill, but this product does. Other products that use the same parts might be more reusable.
The point is that, most likely, the controller existed before this vape. Buying an off the shelf part can be cheaper than trying to bring up some custom part, both in cost and possibly in overall resources.
I don't follow the logic.
Because humans are expensive? Or because we can maybe re-use the components if an (expensive) human comes and retrieves the components?
Sorry for being dumb here.
A combination of:
- humans are expensive.
- If you want a custom part, you will need specialized equipment to build that part.
- If you want a custom part, you will maybe need to transport that part all around the world, while the off-the-shelf components might already be available close to your assembly plant.
I do wonder if there would be a workable law where companies are permanently responsible for what they produce, they must always accept back and responsibly recycle/break down to resources what they put out there, and do away with the shifting of responsibility of waste to society? Seems like a terrible engineering challenge but the right thing to do.
Makes me think of these:
https://duskos.org https://collapseos.org
How do I build a 6502 from just the elements?
You begin by making a pen "from just the elements", then work your way up to there.
In other words, it's a huge challenge, but 6502 is closer, in complexity, to the pen than to the, say, AMD Ryzen.
But the primary idea behind Collapse OS isn't to run from 6502 built from the ground up (although it partly is), but to run from frankenstein cobbled up machines made from scavenged parts.
If I scavenge any machine today, how likely would I be to find a 6502 vs something more modern? I’d argue that some people might have a NES at home and one could get a 2A03 from it, but in a hypothetical scenario where I need to scavenge some computational power, I’d find an Android phone
DuskOS apparently runs on ARM, so one of these vape boards running FORTH would likely feel very roomy indeed.
Even for a Forth, 3KB of RAM is rather tight. Dusk OS intentionally de-prioritize compactness and it couldn't run on that amount of RAM. It can get a C compiler loaded in about 100KB of RAM, but 3? not enough to boot.
You're much more likely to stumble one something more modern, but that modern something is also much less repairable. It's great if it works and if it can run Linux or Dusk OS, but when it can't, you're out of luck.
With a 6502 or other such CPU, the machines you scavenge them from are much more repairable and adaptable. You can use those components like lego blocks. It breaks? either repair it or strip the working parts to use in another frankenstein computer.
OK. It would be nice though if Collapse OS contained tools to build an AMD Ryzen.
holy crap, what a rabbit hole you sent me down.
> "A merry little surge of electricity piped by automatic alarm from the mood organ beside his bed awakened Rick Deckard."
> Dick writes of the IoT being a source of vast-artificial-living-systems functioning on collective compute.
It's a shame negative externalities like this are basically impossible to include in the up-front price.
I feel like a law saying "don't put electronics in disposable products" would do the job.
Almost every electronic device becomes disposable at some point, some sooner than others. Just make sure you bring them to an e-waste bin when that time comes. E-waste recycling is a profitable business, so there's always one nearby in my experience.
If you have some old Samsung Galaxy Gio from 2011, it'll provide far more value by recycling it back to raw materials than it would if you'd somehow try to keep it usable in 2025.
The problem here is planned obsolescence in a product's design. That is what needs to be made illegal.
> Almost every electronic device becomes disposable at some point
And we're all gonna die, why would we have laws at all?
When we say "disposable vape", it's not to say "it will eventually stop working". It's more to say "you use it, you throw it away".
> E-waste recycling is a profitable
I don't doubt it's profitable, but it's most certainly not a good thing for the planet. Recycling is generally not a solution to waste.
> The problem here is planned obsolescence in a product's design. That is what needs to be made illegal.
Seriously? We're talking about DISPOSABLE VAPES. They are built to last as short a time as possible. At this point I am not sure if you think you disagree with me, are just nitpicking for the fun of it, or something else?
Would you include RFID tags in packaging? If so, you're law needs more nuance back to the drawing board.
What about Smoke Detectors, since they too are a disposable electronic?
Do I misunderstand what we mean with "disposable vapes"? It's not the first such comment I see.
When we talk about "disposable vapes", we don't talk about something that lasts 10 years, do we?
Or do you think that the very word "disposable" should not exist, because after all, nothing will last longer than the sun?
You throw away your smoke detector? Just replace the battery.
My guy is out here pulling off the whole thing and tossing it in the trash.
Yes, Smoke Alarms should be thrown away. The element that detects smoke has a 10-year maximum life span, which is exactly why most have moved to a non-replaceable battery that forces you to throw it away (for safety).
So you're comparing a smoke detector that lasts 10 years to a disposable vape? Do disposable vapes last 10 years?
I'm going to need to see some data to back up that claim. Americium-241 has a half-life of 432.6 years. The detector itself isn't going to degrade in any meaningful way after only 10 years.
Plus, many smoke alarms these days use a photoelectric sensor which don't wear out but are prone to false alarms from dust, etc. Smoke alarms SHOULD be cleaned at least once a year, by blasting them with compressed air. Dust buildup is a very common reason that smoke alarms stop working as well after any number of years. They require regular cleaning, just like everything else in the house.
Non-replaceable battery smoke alarms are popular because they are much more convenient to own. And you should NOT throw them away, the batteries in these contain lithium and must be recycled.
Modern smoke detectors, at least here in the US, have a 10-year sealed non-replaceable battery.
every smoke detector i've seen takes a 9volt battery. maybe this is true for commercial units
Those exist and are still available but are fairly outdated in the US. The sealed lithium 10-year disposable is the newer standard. And, actually, building codes for last several year requires them to be hardwired so no batteries at all.
The landlord special on older construction (maybe >10 years old, can't remember when the hardwire code went into effect) will usually be the 9v. Because they don't care about you having to get on a ladder to change the battery every year. They get to save $5-10 per smoke detector. Practically any homeowner is going to choose the 10 year option as the batteries don't have to be swapped.
Most of those smoke detectors are old and already passed their 10-year-lifespan. People keep putting 9-volt batteries in them, but they shouldn't.
If you go look at modern smoke detectors, many-to-most, now have a non-replaceable battery for exactly that reason.
I didn't have to look far to replace my combo CO/Smoke detector or do a ton of hard searching to find one that just took a 9-volt. The first two results on Amazon US for "smoke detector" take 9-volts.
> The first two results on Amazon US for "smoke detector" take 9-volts.
I did the same thing, and the first four results were Kidde and First Alert Smoke Alarms with non-replaceable 10-year lifespan batteries.
It is likely because you recently purchased one, and Amazon has targeted your results based on your purchase history.
It's a shame negative externalities like this are basically impossible to include in the up-front price.
You mean like add the cost of a MRI to the price of a pack of cigarettes?
Will the Butlerian Jihad find all the vapes?
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This is an exceedingly strange comment -- you made up a silly thing to get upset about, and are making fun of people who aren't upset about the thing, because you think it's the sort of thing they would be upset about, even though it isn't and you say as much?
This feels like a whole new category of straw man.
"thinking of inventing a new type of person to get mad at on here. maybe people who carry too many keys around.. i dont know yet"
-Dril
The word "jihad" has a wider meaning than "holy war". It would better be translated into "worthy struggle" — with "worthy" being very subjective.
Islam is in fact the largest religion (by worshippers) in the world today, so Frank Herbert's assumption that a culture derived from it would be dominant in a future society is just extrapolation.
> Islam is in fact the largest religion (by worshippers) in the world today, so Frank Herbert's assumption that a culture derived from it would be dominant in a future society is just extrapolation
Fyi,
> Dune is a 1965 epic science fiction novel by American author Frank Herber
The distinction you're making wrt Jihad is also super modern and did not apply back then
I think the current estimate is that there are almost a half a billion more Christians than Muslims (in 2025.)
One reason is that the number of Christians in Sub-Saharan Africa is growing. But extrapolating the trends, yes Islam will probably become the largest religion in the coming decades.
Or at least maybe - looking at birth rates, it seems as second generation muslim immigrants to Western countries have even lower birth rates than the native population. That might happen also in regions say like Pakistan and Indonesia and other fast growing regions, depending on economical or other changes.
There are many discussions on this exact topic online.
TL;DR: while Dune has many references to various concepts coming from Islamic societies throughout, the Fremen are the obvious stand-in for Arabs specifically, and so get the most attention. And, in the context of the first book at least, Fremen are the "good guys" in many ways - if you reframe it in modern terms, they are the natives fighting against a colonial empire that subjugates them in order to extract a valuable resource from their lands, and then on top of that there's also the more subtle ecological angle.
Really? I thought that it was kind of a ecumenist religion that included themes from many religions.
I hope gp goes on a tear about the Orange Catholic Bible next, and how outrageous its non-subtle references are.
It is.
not really, pretty old overview on it - but kept up to date it seems (current references to interviews)
https://baheyeldin.com/literature/arabic-and-islamic-themes-...
its true that the concept of a _holy war_ isnt unique to the muslim faith though. I never claimed that either however.
It's slightly surprising to me how few people seem to be aware of that in HN. Was expecting the general readership here to be a little less obsessively righteous and uninformed on a topic like this, but ymmv I guess
Hope you don't get caught in Luddic Path's space with your stash of contraband disposable vape
The mismatch between the Ancient Specs of Yore is kind of interesting. The Commodore 64 had 64KB of RAM, but that RAM was attached to an 8-bit, 1MHz CPU. This thing has call it half the RAM of a Commodore 64, but it's attached to a 32-bit 24MHz CPU the 1980s could only dream of. And it's disposable in 2025. Pretty impressive in a weird way.
Its only got 3k of RAM, 24k of flash. Although modern flash is sometimes the same bandwidth as memory was if you go back a bit, although not latency of course.
It's got only 3KB of RAM, less than even the VIC-20.
Whoops, yes. I stand corrected. Tack another order of magnitude or so on to the mismatch.
I am happy they demonstrated how useful these devices are. Marking these as "disposable" is a kind of insanity. I recovered a few of them "disposed" (i.e. "randomly thrown away into") in an empty flower pot, and took out the LiPo batteries from them -- which are rechargeable, and have charge circuitry (non-trivial for LiPos). That we somehow decided that it's OK to design these to be used only once feels wrong.
This is the opposite of repairability. We specifically made them impossible to reuse and refill. Makes my tinkerer (and eco-friendly) heart very sad.
There's a pretty amazing video where a guy makes an entire functioning e-bike battery out of disposable vapes that he gathered around a music festival. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcVp9T8f_W4
I can't fathom why disposables are legal. Really believed that the post-boomer generations actually gave a damn about waste.
There are reusable vapes and reputable stores carry only those, but they are generally many times more expensive than disposable vapes, which are favored by smugglers (profit margins) and underage users (price point and potential seizing by parent/teacher/police).
Disposable vapes put young people in contact with career criminals and organized crime, who will be only too happy to oblige even if the customer has no money. The result is young people in debt to criminals, which has the exact same ramifications as getting in drug debt. Those young people can then be coerced to commit other crimes to cover their debts.
My reusable vape cost like 15$. It's basically the same components as a disposable vape, except I can refill a pod and switch the pod if I burn the wick.
Disposable vapes are an abomination that somehow society has normalised.
Society tends to normalize things that have ad budgets.
Do vapes have ad budgets? All I see are anti-vape ads?
Yes, like all tobacco products. These days a lot of marketing is targeted and subtle, especially for an industry used to dealing with advertising restrictions.
https://tobaccoatlas.org/challenges/marketing/
Not to mention the EXTREME damage it can do to a person's lungs, and do this damage very quickly.
Probably not, unless there are very specific substances in the liquid being vaped.
There are two known culprits: diacetyl is/was used in some flavorings for its buttery taste, and liquid Vitamin E oil was used in clandestinely produced THC vape cartridges (which are really not relevant for the topic at hand). Both of those have largely disappeared from the market.
Sure, some cheap components can in theory leach heavy metals into liquids. The amounts are insignificant compared to what you will be breathing in just by walking on city streets, even outside rush hour.
And at least vapes don’t contain polonium-210 like cigarettes do.
The current state of technology is ... weird. From AI doing our art instead of our work, to hosting a website on an eCigarette. "Weird" is the only word I can think of at this moment.
I wouldn’t want to be the lawyer who one day will have to argue how a device with USB C and a rechargeable battery can be classified as “disposable”.
I thought the point of making them like this was that they technically are reusable, so they can sell them (to people who for some reason keep buying them and throwing them away!) in places where disposable vapes are banned.
I'm confused by why anybody would buy one of these when entirely reusable versions exist, but then vaping seems unwise to me in general except as a way to quit tobacco.
Vaping nicotine doesn't seem that bad to me. AFAICT the dangers outside simple addictiveness are moderate lung irritation and cardiovascular effects, but no strong evidence of cancer caused by vaping alone - far better than cigarettes, and still better than an equivalent drinking problem.
Vaping causes inflammation, nicotine suppresses the immune system (which is probably pretty bad news for fighting any other diseases), and nicotine cessation has been linked with an increase in development of autoimmune disorders in the 12-24 month period after quitting.
I had elevated white blood cells counts and I developed an autoimmune condition a few months after quitting vaping. I had good health record leading up to it and no family history of any autoimmune disorders. White blood cells eventually normalized but autoimmune is forever, although it's under control and I'm lucky that it was caught early.
In the final ~4 years of vaping I didn't use any flavorings either, just 70/30 mix of VG/PG and nicotine.
It's not terrible as far as vices go, much less harmful than the alternatives, but it's definitely not as harmless as I thought going in. I wish I hadn't started and went for the ADHD assessment right away instead of subconsciously self-medicating with nicotine.
Word. I quit nicotine and it triggered auto immune response, I got celiac disease. Never touched it ever again and I had to stop eating like a normal person. No more fast food for the rest of my life.
> linked with an increase in development of autoimmune disorders in the 12-24 month period after quitting
No shit, I had no idea.
That explains a lot. I quit smoking (well, the first time I tried to quit) when I was 19 (2 years smoking). 3 months later I was in the hospital with sclerosing mesenteritis, a rare disorder for an older person but baffling and way out of left-field for a 19 year old with no prior history autoimmune issues. We only got a diagnosis after full exploratory surgery that earned me a six inch incision scar on my stomach.
Don't start smoking, kids.
I don't think adequate studies have taken a look into the long term effects of all the solvents and oils they use aside from the nicotine. Intuitively, this just seems like a terrible idea putting non-water-soluble vapors into your lungs but I am definitely not a doctor.
Vapes are practically unregulated with how many sre being imported from overseas. Health impacts have barely been studied yet.
This is why to me it’s so damn disappointing to me that vaping is targeted so forcefully by the various scolds in the “regulate everything” camp when smoking isn’t yet eradicated. Things like banning flavor and stuff. They want it to be as unpleasant as tobacco, which reduces the likelihood of people switching from tobacco to vaping, killing many of those smokers as a way to “save” teens from taking up an overall not-very-dangerous habit.
> They want it to be as unpleasant as tobacco
I vaped for around 8 years, about 4 years with typical flavorings and the last 4 years unflavored. IME unflavored vaping really isn't that bad, I accidentally switched to it because I ran out of flavoring one time and after a few days I didn't really miss them anymore so I just stopped using them.
I would compare it to people who drink soda all day, they can't fathom how people can drink "boring" plain water all day and they have a really hard time switching, but people who are used to drinking water find it as refreshing and satisfying as anything.
I think these flavorings cause more harm by luring young people to start vaping than they help smokers by luring them away from cigarettes. In an ideal world adults would be allowed to vape whatever they want, and teens wouldn't be able to get their hands on vapes in any capacity, but clearly that's not working so I think that flavor bans are a decent compromise.
I don't buy the argument that flavor bans will make teens go back to smoking. Cigarettes taste awful, they make you smell terrible, they irritate your lungs far more, they're far more expensive. If I was a teen I would still pick up unflavored vaping over cigarette smoking any time, but I'd be less likely to get into vaping without the flavorings.
A counterpoint:
> A third of UK teenagers who vape will go on to start smoking tobacco, research shows, meaning they are as likely to smoke as their peers were in the 1970s.
> The findings suggest that e-cigarettes are increasingly acting as a “gateway” to nicotine cigarettes for children, undermining falling rates of teen smoking over the past 50 years.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/29/third-of-uk-...
Maybe I'm just an old geeser but when I went back to grad school I was absolutely shocked at how many people vaped, and it seemed to have been because they started smoking flavored vapes. People would go to a party, either in high school or college, and the party would be permeated by some sweet smell. Curious kids/people would investigate, try vaping, and eventually get their own, becoming addicted.
As far as I can tell, banning flavored vapes has had a significant impact on reducing vaping/smoking new users, which is the ultimate goal. People who are currently addicted should primarily be motivated to quit, not find better tasting alternatives
There are numerous other options for supporting smoking cessation that do not risk lung injury.
Sure, and removing one appealing option that many people like still means some people will keep smoking who would have quit.
Counter-point: For someone who's used to smoking or vaping, the craving to "take a puff" can be a very strong, maybe stronger than the chemical dependence on nicotine itself.
I noticed that in myself when I was trying to quit, vaping nicotine-free liquids helped my cravings more than nicotine itself. It didn't help the physical withdrawal symptoms but it mysteriously stopped the cravings for a while.
i have owned lots. they taste better than most permanent vapes. ive tried the whole buy all the best components and perfect juices etc with various tanks of different flavours. disposables just work and taste good, no leaks. they also have a logical end point like a pack of cigarettes. Its nice to switch flavour more frequently, and the packet/vape body colours pressed deep monkey brain buttons for fruit etc
Yeah, the sweetener they put in the disposables is like crack. If a liquid could replicate it then the switch to reusable would be a no brainer, but I never found one. Alas I switched to nicotine gum and haven’t looked back.
Looking back, the Juul product seems preferable to the current situation
I did the math and Juul was 47x more expensive than the liquids (this is in Canada). Then I switched to the juice vapes, and finally to kick the juice vaping I picked up pipe tobacco. Pipe tobacco is way cheaper than cigs nevermind vapes, the highest quality, and tastes incredibly good (also, you can also get that "first cigarette headrush" every time if you like by inhaling, works every time).
I meant in terms of e waste mostly, disposable pod vs disposable device
I used to love the smell of my Grandfather's pipe smoke. I still enjoy the occasional 2nd-hand smell of a rollup. Is pipe tobacco different to rollies?
Substantially. It is way more coarse, usually much more moist as well. Tends to be more “pure” tobacco with less additives, though I’m sure that’s not universal. I know somebody who does not smoke but buys it to keep in cabinets and various drawers because they love the smell. I must admit I am partial to the smell as well.
[dead]
But, then where would you host your website?
Used milk carton. It probably has more TFlops than Commodore 64.
In Australia you need a prescription to get nicotine liquid but every convenience store in any big city sells disposables illegally for cheap.
Because reusable versions are a hassle. Cleaning, Charging, Changing Batteries, Changing liquid, etc. Whereas with reusable, well, you just puff and worry about nothing. Which is why people vape in the first place :)
Just like how places with bag bans often just end up with thicker plastic bags that can be sold for ten cents and claimed as “reusable.
They are reusable, which many people take advantage of. And it has dramatically reduced the number of tumbleweed bags clogging up nature.
Reasonable people already reused single-use bags. Trashcan liners, dog walk bags, cat scoop bags, etc.
Having recently been reminded that it used to be common to see eviscerated VHS tapes by roads, I've been reminded that we'll always have people who litter.
I’m not sure what your point is: because one type of litter is reduced, it doesn’t matter because people still litter in other ways?
In every place where plastic bags are banned, there’s a dramatic and obvious reduction in the amount of them clogging up trees, roads, fields, waterways, etc. If people need them for other purposes, they can buy them, while everyone else who doesn’t need them, doesn’t.
The majority of people reuse those bags, they're pretty great actually. Most people I know have slightly more expensive bags made out of fabric though.
Not here. Standing in line at stores like target that have them I see maybe 1/20 people checking out in front of me bring in reused disposable sacks, while 15/20 leave with new ones. Certainly not enough reuse to justify the extra thickness.
I do really enjoy the thickness, and they do displace the cheaper ones in the tube of spares at home, but they’re just bags at the end of the day.
You've misunderstood the assignment if you don't reuse those, they are perfectly fine for that and will last a long time. Just have one in your bag or car. I've even reused paper bags for more than half a year since the ban.
They make perfect office/bathroom trash can liners
They do, but they still don’t make it back to the stores enough, and nobody has 16 wastebaskets to line every week. Also the old ones were just as suitable for wastebasket duty.
The bag laws have done nothing but increase the consumption of plastic, since stores still go through nearly as many, but they’re 5x thicker now.
The only time I even get one of those things is if I forget my regular bag or I buy too much stuff to fit. That happens like once a month. Why are you going into the store empty handed and coming out with 16 plastic bags?
Not everyone is you. 16 is mild hyperbole, but I'm not even speaking normatively on what people should do. I'm speaking about what people do do. I'll stipulate that everyone including me should always keep at least 10 bags in my car so that I can do about 2 typical shopping trips even if I forget to put them back in the car. And we should always remember to carry them in. But that isn't happening with the current hilariously poor incentives in place (50 measly cents to buy 5 bags and no bag deposit either.)
I predict that if you spend 10 minutes observing the checkouts in your supermarket you'll see exactly what I see: At least 75% of people buying new plastic bags for the transaction, and zero people depositing bags into the special bag recycling bin at the store - which in the US is basically the only place this type of plastic is even accepted for recycling.
And again, these bags appear to be 3-5x as thick as the old bags, so the bag law is a huge win for Big Plastic who sells more plastic than they used to, and it mostly goes into the landfill.
The solutions:
• Admit this is a failed policy
• Everyone everywhere stops being imperfect, forgetful and lazy -- 100% of the time.
California is still hoping for the latter to pan out!
Why are you buying 16 bags worth of stuff every week? That seems like the bigger problem.
If you have a family and a grocery store in walking distance you can do it easily; I would hit 16 if I forgot my shopping bag - which I do on occasion.
Some have replaceable pods / tanks, but most have no user serviceable parts whatsoever.
One the liquid is low enough, the coil will burn a bit, and the whole thing should be disposed of.
One shop near me would take used ones and send them off to be properly taken apart and what not, but most people just toss them I suspect.
Some of the new ones have the coil and vape juice in a disposable section while the battery and charge circuitry are reused.
The coil is part of the pod and therefore user-replaceable. The point of a pod system is to keep the coil and liquid in a self-contained system, which practically eliminates the risk of liquid leaks. All of these quasi-disposable vapes with replaceable pods and a charging port can be re-used hundreds of times.
I don't know why people dispose of the whole thing rather than just changing the pod, but at least it's a boon for electronics hobbyists.
Each morning, I walk 5K. I start off in the dark. By midwinter, the whole walk is in the dark.
I am constantly walking past disposable vapes in the street, with their LEDs still shining.
Growing up, smoking was quite common. A lot can change in 20-30 years, so I'm cautiously optimistic that maybe vaping will eventually become as socially unacceptable as smoking.
If you're in the EU/UK the WEEE directive means anywhere selling them should take them back like-for-like to be directed into the correct waste stream. (they get paid some of the deposit on them to do so)
I would be more fine with disposable vapes like this if almost all of them were recovered somehow, for the amount it subsidises production of Li-ion batteries.
Theoretically a high enough deposit could probably “fix the problem.” Like, if the empty was worth a $25 deposit most people would 100% take them back to the store. It would be annoying for people to have the high deposit, but it’s really a one-time expense.
On the other hand at least in the US, a deposit of a buck or two wouldn’t do much. California has that for cans and bottles, yet only maybe 10% of people turn them in. Most end up in curbside recycling (which doesn’t refund) or the garbage, indicating people don’t care about getting their nickel or dime back.
That's the theory. I practice, even in famously recycling-obsessed Germany, it's impossible to return electronics in places that are required to accept them, even two years after that law passed. The staff is really confused when you try.
No, it’s there because the battery can’t hold enough charge for the ratio of vape liquid they put in it. So you get 2-3 full charges and it runs out of liquid.
Could one say that the author found the ultimate computing platform for running vaporware?
Long live hacking! This is what Hacker News is all about. Great article and fun project!
We need to reduce microplastics.
Let's put microcontrollers into disposable vapes.
I don't know if I'm sad or happy.
The micro in this thing is a WQFN-16 (W = very very thin, thinner than V for very) with 3x3x0.75mm body. That's around a fiftieth of a gram of plastic.
I think the bigger SOIC chip is probably the battery charge IC. And then maybe a gram or two of PCB epoxy. And the plastic in the battery pouch and membranes which you need anyway.
In terms of plastics waste volume, the casing and tank is probably nearly all of the content. So the problem is a disposable vape bring a thing at all, not really the microcontroller in there.
It feels mad and somehow wasteful that you can get a CPU at that price point, but the die itself is a tiny sliver of silicon. You can even embed an (even tinier) and weedier application-specific) IC in a paper metro ticket. Compute is just so ridiculously cheap that you can have a hundred of functional ICs for the cost of a single largish cup of hot bean water.
The mfg/mining process for the chips is probably equally bad.
All for a device to help you develop health problems.
There's more silicon in the battery charge controller probably (bigger transistors). The MCU is just a speck. Ironically making these disposable vapes "reusable" causes more e-waste as now they need a connector and charge controller and a bigger PCB.
You could say that for a lot of devices.
It is indisputable that anyone switching cigarette smoking to vaping is making a healthier choice.
By law, neither electronics nor batteries can be disposed of with generic waste. This is the case in the EU, at least. So how are people then disposing these devices?
Disclaimer: I do know the answer, but I'd rather pretend that people actually follow the law.
The vape comes with a miniature laser-engraved WEEE crossed-out trash can symbol so everything is fine.
I’m not vaping mom, It’s my webserver.
Reality catching up with satire: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lE4UXdJSJM4&t=170s
Has anyone done the joke about "next big cloud platform" yet?
I see that as of the time of this comment, he hasn't run Doom on it.
Yet?
3kb of RAM and 24kb of flash is a bit tight for Doom unfortunately. It has been ported to another Cortex-M0+ microcontroller, the RP2040, but that has 264kb of RAM plus megabytes of flash and the game still barely fits.
So you’d just need about 100 vapes. If you have a friend who uses them, should not take long to collect.
3kb of RAM and 24kb of flash is a bit tight for Doom
You can play Doom on an Atari 2600: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/323152-doom-the-2600-demak...
Just need to outboard a little extra RAM.
I see that as of the time of this comment, he hasn't run Doom on it.
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them…
I was just thinking about that slashdot meme the other day. Like Beowulf clusters were the dream! Imagine one! I wanted one! Everybody did!
And now you can spin that shit up for pennies an hour and then throw it all away when you are done.
Who would have seen that coming back in, what, 1998…
I always forget about the idea that IPv6 was intended to allow literally everything to have an address. The mouse, keyboard, display, etc. Seems like a bad idea now, but back then it was considered as part of the overall plan for the nearly infinite space. Maybe the joke is still missing a punchline. We've had this generic device interface for decades but decided on proprietary and arbitrary standards of device communication to make our lives easier in the short-term.
living that cloud life
Hei ; Preact would be deff appropriate in that scenario ; it's a clone of react that is meant to be small !
Very inspiring work btw !
This is why I go to hackernews every day <3
I am SHOCKED everytime I am reminded those Disposable Vapes exist.
My friend, that is a Portable Computer you are holding in Your Hands, and You are THROWING IT AWAY after ONE SINGLE USE?
Insane.
At least the fact that we got to this point in the first place is certainly an achievement for humanity as a whole?
This is really impressive. I laughed when I got 503 Unavailable on the hosted URL. I guess we're all hugging that little vape CPU a little too hard. :)
very impressive, I wonder if it would run Collapse OS (https://collapseos.org/)
Anyone got an RSS for this blog?
So the EEs are right. Electrical circuits run on magic smoke.
Time for the disposable vape web farm
I found of these that had a built-in retro game console with screen. Like, the kind of little game that a small child would be interested in. So frustrating.
This is quite amazing. Dumb question: is there a way to run it in QEMU?
Maybe, I'm not sure how you would connect a debugger to qemu, and you would have to emulate the ram and flash, but other than that is pretty standard arm cortex m0. The code is pretty generic too.
Makes sense, thank you. Congrats on the extremely cool project.
I bought a few hundred Puyas for my lab as stock for projects. They are quite capable and very cheap uCs to have around.
Apparently they're cheap because they're a flash memory company that bolts a little CPU onto their own flash, rather than a CPU company having to then buy the more expensive flash with a markup.
This is like a really really fast VIC 20!
504 timeout -- fug of breath
So a question maybe someone can clue me in on here: while the specs on that MCU seem imminently reasonable to me (especially compared to some of the PIC12F and similar I've used in the past) the thing that feels odd is the high clock speed ARM core. Is it really that cheap and easy to drop an M0 core or ip block into an MCU? Why not more RAM and a simpler/slower core? The M0 feels grossly overkill.
You think a Cortex-M0+ in a disposable vape is wasteful, wait until you see the ones with colour touchscreens and Bluetooth radios. It's probably only a matter of time before they start running Android on them.
What's insane is how cheap all those components are. A quadcore processor with ram and memory, WiFi and Bluetooth for pennies at wholesale.
The latest and fastest GPUs might be a marvel of technology, but so is the tech that let's us make and esp32 for almost nothing
yeah, in 1992 we ran Doom on a 386DX 20Mhz and 320x200 VGA mode :-D
(and it was slooooow and ugly!)
I guess at this point it’s safe to assume humanity won’t regress to a time before computers anymore.
Imagine a beowulf cluster of... wait probably not
how long til they have GPT-5 level LLMs?
I respect the point about not wanting to send the manufacturer any business, but I would love to know the brand so I'd know which ones to rescue if given the chance.
I am probably stupid so bear with me. I don't get the part about not naming brands if you are certain they won't ever sponsor you. I feel like it just hurts the value of the article with nothing gained
It's not about sponsorships and integrity, it's about preventing the pipeline "Person reads article -> Sees this brand of vape has micocontrollers -> Buys this brand of vape".
(If I understood the author correctly, y'know, not to speak for them)
That's gotta be between 75 and 90% less damaging to humanity than the designed use of a disposable vape. Well done, Bogdan!
I'm reminded of the project Tom7 put together a few years back where he used the surplus components inside a digital COVID kit as spare memory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcJSW7Rprio
I wonder how much cost would be added if they included a small usb storage drive in those things. You could incentivize non-disposal because people would have a million of those things.
It’s really hard to quite vaping btw.
Add a GPS and a few propellers to vapes so they can fly themselves directly into the nearest river, lake or (as a last resort) ocean once they're empty.
I know you're joking, but it seems like a great option for IEDs. Cheap, hard to trade (might even come with a patsy's DNA preinstalled)
Why wait until they're empty, let he fish vape I say!
Self-smoked salmon
If the eels get car batteries, the fish can have a little vape, as a treat.
It seems like depending on the dose, Zebra Fish rather like it.[1]
[1]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027858461...
> It’s really hard to quite vaping btw.
They put addictive stuff in vapes, because of course they do.
The Addictive Stuff™ is literally the core feature of the item. Your comment makes it sound like the producers are nefariously and covertly adding nicotine to a product which normally would not have any? It's like saying "These scoundrel breweries! They're making beer that gets you drunk!"
I wonder when an Android phone will be released that includes a vape attachment.
Don't think Apple would go there, but who knows....
I mean disposable vapes are just complete idiocy to begin with.
Vapes with pods are less expensive in the long run and offer a vastly superior vaping experience. You can get liquid for dirt cheap. If you smoke heavily, you might offset the initial investment in a week or two.
Disposable vapes offer zero advantages. They are only good if you want to "just try" it once or that is what you are going to tell yourself in your career of producing e-waste.
What they offer is ubiquity and the turnkey nature. You can walk into any nearby smoke shop, get one and use it immediately. You don't have to carry around a bottle of liquid and extra coils and paper towels/napkins for the inevitable leak.
I stopped vaping a little while ago but when I did vape, there was no clear standard of pod systems. You sure could walk into a nearby smoke shop but it was unlikely that you'd find your ideal pod/coil/liquid.
It's hard to take back the convenience people have gotten used to. I think one idea could be that disposable vapes become recyclable vapes. They should cost $15 more and buyers should get back $10 when they return it for recycling. This is nicotine we're talking about so the buyer is always coming back anyway.
While I do believe that disposable vapes should be banned even if they happen to be more convenient, I really don't see it. When I vaped myself I liked having a re-usable vape so much more than the disposable crap.
With the disposable it would always be a gamble how long they would last. I don't get how people manage. Do they buy multiples at once and carry them around?
It was so much more convenient to carry that small bottle of liquid with me and have the peace of mind that I wouldn't run out of juice for the night. Never had issues with spilled liquid.
Not having a standard for pods sucks but you don't need to buy them that often. I just ordered them online anyway.
Of course it might be a bit of a cultural difference as well. Most of my smoker friends roll their own cigarettes which is way more inconvenient.
Hey can you print this paper off my vape bro? I need to turn it in to my next class.
This is cool, but, man, I felt like such a pathetic excuse for a human being when, brutally craving nicotine, with my vape empty of the fruit-flavoured juice that I am literally addicted to like the stupid pathetic baby that I am, and stuck with the cravings because all the shops are closed until morning, and so, in need of a distraction, I opened Hacker News. FFS.
Sometimes the only option is to laugh at your own expense! Clearly this is a sign. I should buy more juice next time. And maybe start smoking more actual cigs.
Having an addiction doesn't make anyone "a pathetic excuse for a human being"
I agree wholeheartedly.
I've been (I am?) addicted to many substances, from fruit-flavoured nicotine juice through to heroin.
I find self-deprecating humour useful, personally. It helps me not wallow, to take the cravings less seriously. I of course wouldn't say the same about anyone who isn't me.
Because, as you say, someone who has an addiction isn't lesser than anyone else. It's a state of being that requires an awful lot of strength.
That said, having to use that strength on 'mango e-liquid' is, I think, funny in an absurdist way. We live in strange times!
so I had to throw nginx in front of it so my little router wouldn't explode, but I hope some people will get to experience the relaxing loading experience live.
The HN way is to colocate a cluster of these and put them behind a F5
Your GitHub link in the doc gives me a 404. Otherwise, good stuff!
Thank you, it's fixed now.
What were you doing to get traffic from the open Internet to your webserver at home? I always felt that was a risky proposition, but I might just be stupid.
I've hosted at home for years and if you have it properly setup it's not any more risky than using a VPS. I have 443 open on my router and basically all web traffic is routed to a container on my server. The container is on an isolated vlan and basically runs nginx as a ssl reverse proxy.
The actual web services behind the proxy run in their own containers and with proper isolation and firewall rules the effects of a security compromise are limited. At most an attacker will be able to take over the containers with an exploit (and they could do that with a VPS as well) but they won't be able to access the rest of the network or my secure internal systems.
If I was this guy and wanted to let people connect directly to my vapeserver I would simply host it on another vlan and port forward the HTTP connection. Even if someone manages to take over such an obscure system they're not going to be able to do much.
Open a port or if their router supports it, assign their device to a DMZ.
Why do you think it’s risky? Maybe we can talk about ways of securing it.
Like any server, it’s as safe as the server software (and its configuration).
Done it since before I properly knew what I was doing. Haven't had issues. Even though n=1, also now that I'm actually working in IT security, I don't think the risk was ever much bigger than what I could oversee
The main thing is that, if someone gets onto the server system, then they're in my network and they can do attacks on other devices in that LAN (guest wifis are a nice way to isolate that nowadays; that didn't exist back when I started). Same as when I take my laptop to school for example, then others can reach it. I've had issues with others in school doing attacks because the internet was unencrypted http back then (client-side hashing in JavaScript limited the impact though), but not from anyone who tried to hack into the server. Only automated scans for outdated Wordpress, setup files for Phpmyadmin, ssh password guessing... the things they simply try blindly on every IP address. If any of this is successful, you're most likely going to be turned into a spam-sending server or a DDoS zombie; not something with lasting impact once you discover the issue and remove the malware
Most attackers don't do targeted attacks on your system or network unless you're a commercial entity that presumably can pay a nice ransom, or are a high-profile individual. Attackers aiming for consumers send phishing emails and create phishing advertisements, look for standard password vaults if you run their malware, try using stolen credentials on Steam and hope you've got a payment method stored... the usual old things. Having a server doesn't make any of those attacks easier, and besides, self hosting is very uncommon. Even if you and I had a similar enough setup at home with a straightforward path to exploitation, it's a few thousand people that self-host in a country with millions of people. It's not worth developing attacks for
> What were you doing to get traffic from the open Internet to your webserver at home? I always felt that was a risky proposition,
How times change.
Once nearly every self respecting IT pro ran servers from there home network. The modern drive to outsource and consolidate the interweb to a handful of big players I find rather odd; perhaps even counterproductive in the long run.
VPS with public ipv4, connected to home network over Tailscale and forward the traffic with socat. You'd probably be fine opening a port directly but a small VPS is free most places so might as well make the most of it.
Could you elaborate more on the "a small VPS is free"? Except Oracle's free tier offer, I am not aware of others; I'd appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction.
For this I used GCP free tier -- not sure why everyone acts like Oracle are the only free tier around when GCP and AWS offer always-free tiers too. It's just runing socat to forward to the vape over tailscale. Is there something I'm missing?
I'm not sure where to go for the free VPS, other than Oracle Cloud, as you mention, but a Cloudflare tunnel will get traffic into your LAN even behind CGNAT or other nonsense.
You can put the public facing stuff on a separate VLAN and have firewall rules that don’t give the VLAN access to LAN stuff. I only know how to do this with IPv4 though, IPv6 confuses me and I’m scared to get it wrong so I disabled it.
People might hack your toaster and burn your house down? Smart ovens? Smart microwaves? Smart fires?
It would be nice to pool ideeas for what they could be recycled into. Imagine the amount of automatic cat feeders the world could build with these.
Now make a cluster of them running on load balancer
Previously discussed, but I think that first submission fell off the frontpage early because it linked directly to the vapeserver which instantly died under load: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45243800
It let out one last valiant puff of smoke after it succumbed to load.
Thanks, we merged that thread into this one.
[dead]
[dupe] More discussion on this submission by the dev: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45243800
Thanks, we merged that thread into this one.